Comments for Poll confirms massive support for the caliphate in the Muslim world at http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb , comment 1 to 19 out of 19 comments http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:40:10 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.2 http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/resources/issues-explained/poll-confirms-massive-support-for-the-caliphate-in-the-muslim-world.html#comment-1533 As Salaamu 'Alaikum, Yaa Muslimeen, Wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakaatuhuu; We must establish Khilafah and otherwise obey Allahu Ta'Aalaa Wa Ar Rasuulullaah (Sal Allaahu 'Alaihi Was Sallam) AS MUCH AS WE CAN. Barik Allaahu Fiykum wa Yahdiykum Allaahu. As Salaamu 'Alaikum Wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakaatuhuu. - Jason Quddus Mow Sun, 12 Aug 2007 03:34:58 +0100 http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/resources/issues-explained/poll-confirms-massive-support-for-the-caliphate-in-the-muslim-world.html#comment-1129 "Non-Muslims enjoyed freedom and justice under Islamic Caliphates of the past and their religious beliefs and places of worship were protected and preserved under Islamic rule in complete contrast to the notorious Spanish Inquisition." What about atheists? And apostates? Would an "Islamic Caliphate" be notoriously tolerant of these? Thanks in advance. - ohwell Sun, 08 Jul 2007 01:06:20 +0100 http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/resources/issues-explained/poll-confirms-massive-support-for-the-caliphate-in-the-muslim-world.html#comment-974 Assalam. dear brothers and sisters. I do believe that the result of the survey is true. I am a Muslim in Bangladesh, Study in the University of Dhaka. I have been observing that some of my friends are driving towards Islam. But once upon a time they used to support western culture such as free mixing; not only that they used to observe Valentine day, 31st day etc. Today they came to realize that this western culture is destroying our glorious Islamic family bonds, relationship between parents ans sons,between brothers and sisters and our harmonious relationship with neighbor. So after searching for happiness they finally find Islam which really can bring tranquility for the humanity. Alhamdullillah this is a good sing for Islam that the Muslims youth started to realize Islam is the only solution for not only Muslims but also rest of the world who are till under the oppression and suppression by the capitalism or democracy. - Shamim Bin Abdul Aziz Wed, 13 Jun 2007 02:02:44 +0100 http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/resources/issues-explained/poll-confirms-massive-support-for-the-caliphate-in-the-muslim-world.html#comment-957 Lou 1. Even the school of thought that permits taqayh (though i believe it to be an incorrect opinion) state rigorous conditions eg when your life is in danger. They do not permit it to be used against anyone to lie or decieve. Historically we can see many non- Muslims embraced Islam because of the just dealing and example set by muslims especially in trade and access. 2. We really need to be careful of the media and politicians protrayl of Muslims. Most Muslims know ful lwell how to intellectualy and politically voice there concerns in a manner that would not be counterproductive. We also must at the same time condemn state terrorism. We saw the bnp call for violence yet no action was taken against it suse of actual violence and incitement to hated. - mnawaz Sun, 10 Jun 2007 22:10:37 +0100 http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/resources/issues-explained/poll-confirms-massive-support-for-the-caliphate-in-the-muslim-world.html#comment-936 can i please have the link to the this poll which was published, i.e. an external website. Note: WorldPublicOpinion.org - muslim Fri, 08 Jun 2007 19:06:23 +0100 http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/resources/issues-explained/poll-confirms-massive-support-for-the-caliphate-in-the-muslim-world.html#comment-934 My friend, dhimmi must pay the jizzya. No dhimmi can have a house bigger than a muslim. The dhimmi must always be respectful (obedient) to the muslim, and on and on and on. And churches? Muslims have made a practice of turning churches (that they dont destroy) into mosques since day 1. What about the Indian monument/temple whatever they were that the Taliban blew up? They were like 1000 years old. Get real! In Saudi Arabia, where you have the Shariah, no other religion can be practiced LEGALLY except Islam. Nice place. In Palestine Christians are leaving in droves. Same with the Copts in Egypt. Why? Persecution and death. Editors note: I think you misunderstand that these persecutions against other faiths happens when Islam no longer places any role in state and society. The presence of Coptic Christians in Egypt or Jews who prospered in Istanbul shows the high regard the Muslims had for their non-Muslim citizens. Interestingly the early 20th century western discussion on Islam was usually very positive about Muslim and non-Muslim relations. See for example Bertrand Russel or Arnold Toynbee. History is easily re-written, especially under messrs. blair and Bush. - Lou Fri, 08 Jun 2007 19:05:11 +0100 http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/resources/issues-explained/poll-confirms-massive-support-for-the-caliphate-in-the-muslim-world.html#comment-933 Hmm. Well, those are some nicely thought out replies to my earlier comments. Certainly the west has had and continues to have unpopular and in many cases negative impacts in the middle east and Afgh/Paki. We now have a problem. People walking our streets with "Behead Those who Insult Islam" signs are not going to be well received. And then there is the taqqiyah, where in Islam it is acceptable, no, encouraged, to deceive the unbelievers. I am afraid given taqqiyah, it will be difficult for the west to accept anything reasonable that you say. Just look at this website - Mohhamed spread Islam in the middle east (not India, of course) through totally non-violent means? Someone isnt fessing up. Editors Note: Lou: The idea of Taqiyyah is not a mainstream idea and most Muslims including Hizb ut-Tahrir argue that the opinion is weak and has a tenuous basis in Islamic sources. It also makes the personality a 'two-faced' one, such that our objective of showing people what the Islamic faith is will be severly undermined. - Lou Fri, 08 Jun 2007 19:01:13 +0100 http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/resources/issues-explained/poll-confirms-massive-support-for-the-caliphate-in-the-muslim-world.html#comment-931 Many, many thanks for taking the time to answer my some waht confused questions. Before going any further I should state that as a Christian who is active in the life of the wider church I spend significant amounts of my time, trying to encourage other christians to be far more critical of democracy. those who claim their lives to be ordered by their devotion to god, must work hard to recognise the very significant differences between Democratic notions of nationhood, defended through millitary might and through capitalist ecnomic practice as vastly different to the practices of holiness which lie at the heart of the christian faith. I find an inability to distinguish christian faith from nationhood abhorent! I am glad that there are Muslims keen to affirm the political nature of their life as that which ought to be ordered by Allah, my questions simply aim to encourage discerment about how we best do this together. In what kind of state can you be the best Muslim whiole I endeavour to bethe best christian I can be. at the heart of my question I am fundamentally cautious about the extent to which we simply place false hope in any idea of the state. christians have made this mistake since the conversion of constantine and would hate Muslims to follow our poor example. Alternatively I would wnt to argue that I witness real politics, not in national corridors of power, but in our places of worship, our homes ect. faitfulness to something other than the nation state, is precisely what exposes the ills of the nation state. Christians talk about god's kingdom, not as a geographical place but as a description of what it means to live in God's time, only here do we discover the fulness of political vision. I hope this makes sense, although I fear otherwise. One last thing is to say that I think the real political challenge is not about nations but about our most local particularities. We all need to work much harder at enabling the 'other' to experience the riches of what God/Allah has given us in our daily lives. I'm not sure what this would look like but I hope to discover it soon. If we were standing at a bus stop waiting to attend our respective places of worship would we have this debate, or is it only possible because from within our closed communities we are abloe to hide behind the anonymity of cyber space. I hope I'm wrong. - Andi Smith Fri, 08 Jun 2007 11:18:19 +0100 http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/resources/issues-explained/poll-confirms-massive-support-for-the-caliphate-in-the-muslim-world.html#comment-930 Dear Andi Many thanks for your comment and question. I hope that we can explain the points that are of confusion. I would start by saying two things. Firstly, as I think you appreciate from reading our stuff, none of us feel and all non Muslims are 'western capitalist dictator's! Secondly, a reminder that the context we are talking about is the majority-Muslim countries. There are two substantive points to discuss: 1. Why Muslims want this and 2. How application of Shariah in society affects non Muslims? Shariah is a term used for the Islamic legal code. It extends from the personal to the societal, giving legal definition to an individuals relationship between: - their self and God - their self and other individuals [be they family, neighbours, passers by, Muslim or non Muslim] - their self and the State/Society/Rest of the world. In Islam the former two categories are seen as areas left to the individual. GOvernment cannot interfere in these UNLESS it becomes an issue in the rest of society. Governments remit is inthe public arena and NEVER in the private. So what Muslims and non Muslims do in their homes or on private land [could be a Church, a club, etc] is between that person and God, and that person and the others they live with or are around. When a Muslim or a non Muslim are in the public sphere, the law of the land applies to everyone [exceptions mentioned below]. The fact that the law cannot be influenced by external considerations [business lobbies, feudal landlords, vested interest groups] is one of the reasons that Muslims find this so attractive as the system for their lands. It means government's role is to solve problems based on these laws rather than to make new laws to accomodate the problems. One of the criticisms of even the best democratic systems is that - despite good levels of public representation through the electoral systems - legislation is affected by these external considerations. In the current world climate this is manifest by the influence of big business corporations, with some businesses [eg finance, energy and arms] having more influence than others. The Cash for honours thing is an unfortunate example of this. One of the common features of the Muslim world, where there is no representation [a fact that application of Shariah would rectifiy] is that the autocracies and dictatorships twist the laws for their own ends. Where 'democracy' exists it is rife with corruption. The areas of exceptions to the Shariah being applicable to non Muslims in the public sphere are those areas which are considered actions, which although they may not have the appearance, are considered by Muslims to be part of ritual worship to God. A good example of this is Zakat - the poor tax. A Muslim who is able is obliged to pay this to the government for redistribution appropriately and the payment is a form of ritual worship. Non Muslims cannot be asked to pay this. HOwever, outside of the exceptions [of which there are a few] citizens, whether Muslim or non Muslim, simply have to abide by the law of the land, as they do in any society. They are not expected to believe in the Shariah as part of their duties as a citizen. It is worth noting that many non Muslims who live in places where Islamic custom is the norm do not have any problems with it. I do think the cultural contrast with Europe and the United States is what makes your own question quite common over here. I hope that this helps clarify the point. Sincerely Best wishes - Abdul Wahid Fri, 08 Jun 2007 09:17:44 +0100 http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/resources/issues-explained/poll-confirms-massive-support-for-the-caliphate-in-the-muslim-world.html#comment-928 "Turning any state into the exclusive monopoloy of one ideology". Andi, one could argue that the prevailing system of dominance i.e. capitalism, very much fits this description. Through a combination of military, political and financial bullying, nations who have not succumbed are forced to comply or face the consequences. With regards to the position of Non-Muslims under an Islamic state, one has only to look at historical facts in answer to this query. Non-Muslims enjoyed freedom and justice under Islamic Caliphates of the past and their religious beliefs and places of worship were protected and preserved under Islamic rule in complete contrast to the notorious Spanish Inquisition. The overwhelming majority of people coming to Islam past and present, have done so due to their own free will and rational choice. It is fair to say that none of the so-called 'Muslim' countries offer Shariah Law. This is why there is a yearning from Muslims the world over, for a return of an Islamic State that would implement Shariah Law as it should be implemented and bring true justice back to the world. I will finish by quoting Sarojini Naidu (famous Indian Poet) “It was the first religion that preached and practised democracy, for in the mosque, when the minaret is sounded and the worshippers gather, the democracy of Islam is embodied five times a day, when the peasant and king kneel side by side and proclaim “God Alone Is Great.” - Kashif Amin Fri, 08 Jun 2007 07:09:00 +0100 http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/resources/issues-explained/poll-confirms-massive-support-for-the-caliphate-in-the-muslim-world.html#comment-924 Most Western countries jealously gaurd their sovereignty. It is about time the Muslim world did the same and start looking after the interests of its peoples before that of large foreign multi-nationals and corrupt dictators. Shariah Law is the only system that will work in Muslim countries and the polls show that it is in line with the peoples desire. - Abu Mariam Thu, 07 Jun 2007 23:02:47 +0100 http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/resources/issues-explained/poll-confirms-massive-support-for-the-caliphate-in-the-muslim-world.html#comment-922 Salam Brothers and Sisters, Khilafah o muslem ummah, i see it in the horisent, soon it will be, thats is why the world leaders is complayning abut islam all the time, soon the aja off the Koran will be a reality: I da dja ana sloalla hi walfat waraijanas jetroruna fidinilahi afwaja fasabebehamdirabika wastrafaho inahokantauwaba. salam from a muslem brohter from Denmark - anvar Thu, 07 Jun 2007 20:07:17 +0100 http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/resources/issues-explained/poll-confirms-massive-support-for-the-caliphate-in-the-muslim-world.html#comment-921 My 'friend' either you are ill informed or chose to remain ignorant, but the fact is that Afghanistan doesnt apply the Shariah it is the baby of the western governments. If it is hideous then blame the west. Neither does Pakistan apply the shariah. The political system is modelled on British democracy, something very far removed from the wishes of the Pakistani people. Maybe you should go and live in the experimental system the western powers created!!!! - Mia Bhai Thu, 07 Jun 2007 18:51:20 +0100 http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/resources/issues-explained/poll-confirms-massive-support-for-the-caliphate-in-the-muslim-world.html#comment-919 So I'm fully with this debate on points 2,3,4,and 5. 1 however leaves me feeling slightly unnerved. If someone could explain the capacity for non Muslims (without assuming that all non muslims are western capitalist dictastor's) under the Shariah law that would be very helpful indeed. Turning any state into the exclusive monopoloy of one ideology appears to me an extreme reaction against having the particularities of your tradition ignored within the universality of supposed democracy's. - Andi Smith Thu, 07 Jun 2007 12:07:02 +0100 http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/resources/issues-explained/poll-confirms-massive-support-for-the-caliphate-in-the-muslim-world.html#comment-918 Lou You mean you do not want shariah. You do not speak for everyone. Secondly no one is calling for shariah in the UK. The call if for the Muslim world to decide their own political and legal systems. Thirdly Afghanistan and Pakistan are not Islamic states and at the moment both the Governments of USA and UK support dictators over there. Finally Muslims have an alternative to Capitalsim which should be looked at without prejudices to solve the divide between rich and poor both in the UK and Globally. - Mnawaz Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:36:36 +0100 http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/resources/issues-explained/poll-confirms-massive-support-for-the-caliphate-in-the-muslim-world.html#comment-917 salam bros. thisis not a comment for the article. i thnk theres a mistake. you have shown the graph for wanting US troops out of muslim lands twice. i think u missed out the poll for wanting shariah law and put the foregn troops graph instead one more time. wasalam - Abdul Aziz Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:01:51 +0100 http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/resources/issues-explained/poll-confirms-massive-support-for-the-caliphate-in-the-muslim-world.html#comment-912 Great! If you want Shariah, go back to Afghanistan or Pakistan and have it, by all means. We dont want it, and deep down inside, you know we never will have it. Australia has it right, and soon so will we. If you want Shariah, you are more than welcome to take advantage of the freedom of our society to leave. :) - Lou Thu, 07 Jun 2007 03:06:32 +0100 http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/resources/issues-explained/poll-confirms-massive-support-for-the-caliphate-in-the-muslim-world.html#comment-909 Inshallah the victory of Allah is soon - Abdullah Thu, 07 Jun 2007 01:21:46 +0100 http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/resources/issues-explained/poll-confirms-massive-support-for-the-caliphate-in-the-muslim-world.html#comment-910 Yes, but our victory will be based on civility not the barbarism of liberal interventionists. - Abdul Thu, 07 Jun 2007 00:23:43 +0100